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Mainstream Scottish Rite Recognizes Prince Hall Scottish Rite In All States

From Federal Lodge No 1  Washington, D.C.

“Exciting news today from Washington D.C.! The Supreme Council, 33º, of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite for the Southern Jurisdiction of the United States, and Mother Supreme Council of the World, in session this week, announced that it is formally recognizing the Prince Hall Scottish Rite Supreme Council. Further, the Sovereign Grand Commander for the Northern Jurisdiction said that if the Southern Jurisdiction recognizes the Prince Hall Supreme Council, they would do it also.”

Those who watched the streaming session of the Supreme Council Southern Jurisdiction saw this announcement live. You can re-watch that HERE: http://www.realworldstreaming.com/scottishrite/ This announcement was made Monday, August  26, 2013 by SGC Southern Jurisdiction  Ill. Ronald A. Seale, 33º and seconded by SGC Northern Jurisdiction  Ill. John William McNaughton, 33° and presented to Prince Hall SGC Ill Deary Vaughn, 33°.

Scottish Rite

Scottish Rite Sovereign Grand Commander of the Southern Jurisdiction, Ill Ronald A Seale

Finally the leadership at the top has responded. This has breakthrough ramifications for those Confederate states that still refuse to recognize Prince Hall. If the Scottish Rite Bodies in these states recognize each other how can the Blue Lodges not do the same? This breaks the back of objections to mutual recognition throughout the United States between Prince Hall Freemasonry and Mainstream Freemasonry. It clears the way for all Mainstream Grand Lodges in the United States to recognize all Prince Hall Grand Lodges with mutual visitation included.

Posted in The Bee Hive and tagged , , .

Fred is a Past Master of Plymouth Lodge, Plymouth Massachusetts, and Past Master of Paul Revere Lodge, Brockton, Massachusetts. Presently, he is a member of Pride of Mt. Pisgah No. 135, Prince Hall Texas, where is he is also a Prince Hall Knight Templar . Fred is a Fellow of the Phylaxis Society and Executive Director of the Phoenix Masonry website and museum.

50 Comments

  1. in the state of arkansas—-brother ballard—i would say you are so right–nothen is followed that is on paper.

  2. It is of my personal opinion that this is a giant step in the correct direction. I am the Master of a Lodge in the Grand Lodge of the State of New York and those of us in New York City have a great, and building relationship, with our Prince Hall Brethren.

    All of that being said, it will be interesting to see how certain other states respond to this development.

    Worshipful Isaac Ambrose Moore
    Mariners Lodge No.67
    Free and Accepted Masons
    New York City

  3. Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity! Psalm 133 KJV

  4. I believe this is a step in the right direction! I am excited to hear the news from my brethren back in TN. I am in Hawaii right now and here the relationship is GREAT!!!! Like Brother David Lettelier say ” How good and pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity!! That is a true statement!!!

  5. I am very proud to be a member of the Scottish Rite for do doing this great recogniztion of Prince Hall. Leon

  6. Behold the exemplification of Masonry with its Friendship, Morality and Brotherly Love rises in the east to open and adorn the day. God Bless the Scottish Rite for its Wisdom, Strength and Beauty and may the Craft of the World prosper thereby.So Mote it be.

    Albert H McClelland, O.S.M.,PM

  7. That’s good news indeed. I would love to attend one of the HRA Chapter meetings when I next visit US.
    Tofique Fatehi
    RWM – Lodge Forman #1066 (GLoScot) – Mumbai, INDIA
    1st Principal ‘Z’ – RA Chapter Independence and Perseverance #71 – Mumbai
    AMD,OSM,Scarlet Cord, Operatives.

  8. I’ll be curious to see how Florida reacts. I wouldn’t be surprised if they withdrew recognition of Scottish Rite in Florida. This would be a radical move, since Scottish Rite is very entrenched here and most, if not all, Grand Lodge officers belong to it.

  9. Several Prince Hall brothers that I know have said repeatedly that the PHA jurisdictions down south also do not recognize the state Grand Lodges or the SR Southern Jurisdiction.

    Unless they were lying, unless that changes, I think this was a move for looks only.

  10. In a letter by General Albert Pike to his brother in 1875 he said, “I am not inclined to mettle in the matter. I took my obligations to white men, not to Negroes. When I have to accept Negroes as brothers or leave Masonry, I shall leave it.

  11. Brother Rogers this is an oft repeated false claim. Prince Hall has a blanket recognition of all of Mainstream Masonry. Mainstream was there first. Prince Hall has never contested the regularity of Mainstream Grand Lodges nor ever deemed them to be clandestine. Recognition is a matter of fact and needs no separate process at this time. Mainstream Masonry on the other hand declared Prince Hall Freemasonry to be irregular and clandestine and issued non recognition orders. In order to undo the non recognition Prince Hall has to be formally recognized by Mainstream. Prince Hall has nothing to undo with Mainstream Masonry. From the beginning it has recognized all Mainstream Grand Lodges.

  12. Just two observations

    1) In the video SGC Deary Vaughn (SJ-PHA) said there is not yet mutual recognition until it is approved at their supreme council session in October. He said he prays that it is passed among his membership during the session.

    2) The recognition doesn’t necessarily mean that all states/orients will have inter-visitation. Just like when the two Northern Jurisdictions agreed to mutual recognition in 1995 there were still several states without mutual recognition in the north. I believe only the states with mutual recognition had inter-visitation among consistories.

    Remember there is at least one state that has mutual recognition on paper but still no inter-visitation (unless recently changed).

  13. Whoooooooooa! Where are you getting this information from? Prince Hall Grand Lodges are separate entities just as the “mainstream” ones are. There is NO blanket recognition for Mainstream lodges by Prince Hall. I am member in the jurisdiction of the Grand Lodge of Alabama, F&AM. I have a good friend of mine who is a member of the Prince Hall grand lodge here. Their Grand Lodge does not recognize ours. In fact, two years ago he said at a Grand Lodge meeting, “I will never give the grip to a white man!”) I am told that he was getting up in the years and was having health issues, so I like to chalk that one up to a fluke. But I mention that to further illustrate the point (which is, “There is no blanket recognition.”) Look at your last sentence. You use the word “it”. Prince Hall Masonry is not an “it”. Prince Hall Masonry is a “they”. (Meaning there are many independent Grand Lodges in the category of Prince Hall Masonry). Here’s a passage from a 2006 fox news article to illustrate my point even further. Notice what the Prince Hall Grand Master in Arkansas says about mutual relations in his state.

    **The head of Prince Hall Masons in Arkansas, Cleveland Wilson, said neither black nor white groups there have discussed mutual recognition. Extending Masonic brotherhood would be nice, he said, “but we’re fine without them.”

    “I’m of the attitude that since they haven’t shown any interest, I’m not interested either,” Wilson said.**

    Source: http://www.foxnews.com/story/2006/10/24/masonic-groups-in-south-struggle-with-racial-separation/

    See where I’m going with this? Prince Hall Grand Lodges are separate entities and no one person speaks for them or offers any kind of “blanket recognition” as you describe.

    The friend I mentioned earlier who is a Prince Hall mason in Alabama and I both want recognition to happen in my state. And when I grumbled about the way some of the members in my jurisdiction feel about the race issue he quickly replied and said, “Don’t be fooled. There’s racism on our side too. They’re also a minority. You could call it half racism, half bitterness.” What he meant by this (and what your biased blogs fail to mention when talking about “Confederate Masonry”) is that this area was at the HEART of the civil rights movement. You are talking about trying to bring groups of men who actually lived in that time together in fellowship. On one side you may have some folks who are racist. On the other side you may have racism, resentment or both. These two sides (in any of the states that do not currently recognize each other) aren’t going to just jump up and shake hands because we think it’s a good idea. Mutual recognition is almost inevitable in time in all 50 states. But it will be done with THEY want it to be done (and not because someone else thinks it’s a good idea).

    The last time I posted a reply to your blog I expressed concern about the lack of objectivity in your articles. You responded with words to the effect of, “I don’t have to be objective. A blog is the perfect place to express an opinion.” I’m sorry I could not and can not persuade you to make an attempt to be unbiased and try to present all sides of any given issue but if you’re not even going to make the effort, please at least base your opinions on fact.

    —————————————————————————
    Brother Rogers this is an oft repeated false claim. Prince Hall has a blanket recognition of all of Mainstream Masonry. Mainstream was there first. Prince Hall has never contested the regularity of Mainstream Grand Lodges nor ever deemed them to be clandestine. Recognition is a matter of fact and needs no separate process at this time. Mainstream Masonry on the other hand declared Prince Hall Freemasonry to be irregular and clandestine and issued non recognition orders. In order to undo the non recognition Prince Hall has to be formally recognized by Mainstream. Prince Hall has nothing to undo with Mainstream Masonry. From the beginning it has recognized all Mainstream Grand Lodges.

  14. Just to clarify (because some editing removed what I wanted to say) that statement, “In fact, two years ago he said at a Grand Lodge meeting, “I will never give the grip to a white man!” did not come from my friend. That came from the most recent Past Grand Master (Prince Hall) at their annual communication about 2 years ago. Now, even as a white guy I don’t get bent out of shape over that statement. There is context behind what he is saying. I may disagree with what he said, but I can imagine why he would say that. There’s some bitter feelings on both sides of the fence and they will pass with time (with any luck, before I die). But understand that there is more to fixing this problem than just, “In order to undo the non recognition Prince Hall has to be formally recognized by Mainstream.”

  15. Well here we are again Brother Jason. Once more a blog is a place to express your opinion. There is no duty to present both sides. You are writing to express your side, how you see things. If you don’t like what I have to say form your own blog and write a rebuttal or a post that contradicts what I say. I, also, will give you and anybody else that is civil the chance to comment on my blog. I will not refuse you that opportunity. But please don’t ask me to argue your point of view in order to be fair. That’s your job and you might do it better if you were less condescending.

    What you say is true that each Prince Hall Jurisdiction is a separate entity and a power unto itself. And it is true that each Grand Lodge must make its own arrangements with its counterparts. What I was referring to was that Prince Hall himself regarded Mainstream Masonry as perfectly “legal,” regular and duly authorized. In fact he tried to join and even merge with them. This set a precedent that acknowledged the acceptance of Mainstream Masonry as duly chartered, practicing regular Freemasonry and deemed representative of the Mother Grand Lodge.

    No Prince Hall Grand Lodge has declared Mainstream Masonry to be clandestine or irregular. They have all recognized Mainstream Masonry as valid. There is no need for Prince Hall to re-recognize Mainstream Grand Lodges. All of Mainstream on the other hand declared Prince Hall Masonry to be clandestine at one time or another. To recognize Prince Hall they must undo what they have done in declaring PHA to be clandestine. Prince Hall has nothing to undo.

    What we don’t have in a lot of cases is mutual recognition which sometimes will necessitate a compact between Grand Lodges. But recognition can be granted without reciprocation. There are a couple of Mainstream Grand Lodges that have declared that they recognize all Prince Hall Lodges in the nation. They did so unilaterally.

  16. You’re right, brother. My posts did come off that way and I owe you an apology for that.

    In terms of your last post:

    *******************************************************************
    No Prince Hall Grand Lodge has declared Mainstream Masonry to be clandestine or irregular. They have all recognized Mainstream Masonry as valid. There is no need for Prince Hall to re-recognize Mainstream Grand Lodges. All of Mainstream on the other hand declared Prince Hall Masonry to be clandestine at one time or another. To recognize Prince Hall they must undo what they have done in declaring PHA to be clandestine. Prince Hall has nothing to undo.
    ********************************************************************

    This simply is not true. I truly don’t think you know how many Prince Hall masons who don’t want or don’t care about mutual recognition. At the present time the friend I spoke of previously will tell you that even if my Grand Lodge were to make the request he is certain it would not pass in he Prince Hall Grand Lodge. There is no de facto recognition. Remember, part of the argument for not recognizing Prince Hall Grand Lodges is that Prince Hall did have a charter for his own lodge. He did not (or at least from what I read) have a charter to form a Grand Lodge. He did anyway. It turns out that several “mainstream” grand lodes formed the same way so I don’t really view this as a deal breaker. If I recall correctly the UGLE said something to the effect of “The formation of the Prince Hall Grand Lodge was eccentric but not irregular for the day.” I agree. But just as Albert Pike is not the “be all, end all” in Scottish Rite masonry I can probably reasonably assume that Prince Hall was never endowed to decisions for Grand Lodges that weren’t even in existence at his time.

    But not only is there no de facto recognition but there seems to be a perception that all Prince Hall Grand Lodges are just eagerly waiting to right a wrong that was made hundreds of years ago. This is fallacy. There’s some who are resentful as I described earlier and there’s a whole lot who just don’t care. And there are just some that just genuinely have no interest in it. I have met several Prince Hall masons in Alabama that feel this way and you’ll see this echoed across the various masonic forums. You say that they have all recognized mainstream masonry as valid. I suspect their jurisprudence committees will disagree.

    In terms of mainstream grand lodges (the Prince Hall masons in my state seem to have adopted the phrase “Scottish Rite” instead of “mainstream” because mainstream comes across as a bit condescending), Alabama currently has six different “Grand Lodges” that call themselves Prince Hall. Most are located in the Montgomery and Birmingham areas. I would guess this is true in other states as well. So, which one would you have us recognize? All of them? The only way that most can think of is to have a jurisprudence committee investigate their lineage and start there. I personally agree with this approach. There is no de facto recognition. No one person has the authority to speak for all Prince Hall masons. It is fallacy to believe that every body of Prince Hall masons that are not currently recognized by their mainstream counterparts are just sitting around eagerly awaiting recognition. I firmly believe mutual recognition will happen eventually in all states. It’s just a matter of time.

  17. Brother Jason,

    You are right. Some Prince Hall Masons are resentful and others don’t care. It is more in some states and less in others. But your personal experience does not make a competent study. I am talking about the historical context and within that context Black Masonry has recognized Traditional White Masonry as a valid form of Masonry.

    After over 200 years of banishment the desire to be together, to be interconnected has definitely waned. Yet there is one big reason that PHA Grand Lodges work for recognition. If they receive that recognition from their Mainstream counterpart they can apply for and with assurance receive official recognition from the UGLE.

    Your argument starts to deteriorate into baseless charges used by those who would thwart recognition for unsavory reasons. I don’t know your state but in the ones I am familiar with all the clandestine Black Masonry is not called Prince Hall. They all do not have Prince Hall in their name. Prince Hall as applied to Masonry is not a synonym for Negro, Black or African-American. And to say that you don’t know how to distinguish the real from the bogus seems implausible to me coming from such a bright guy as you who knows so many things.

    Legitimate Black Freemasonry are those that were chartered by a Lodge or Grand Lodge which traces its lineage back to African Lodge #459 which has a charter from England. All of these now refer to themselves as PHA – Prince Hall Affiliated. To verify and research any of this all one has to do is to go to the Phylaxis Society and therein read the reports of the Commission on Bogus Masonry.

    The information in this webpage was prepared by Paul M. Bessel, Executive Secretary of the Masonic Leadership Center. Please contact me with any additional information, or any comments or suggestions. My email address is paulb’at’bessel.org

    It is reported that the following Grand Lodges have “blanket” recognition of all Prince Hall Grand Lodges that are recognized by their corresponding “mainstream” Grand Lodge (with dates when this was reportedly done). I have not been able to check to verify this, except where noted below.

    Illinois – 2002
    Connecticut – 2002
    Nebraska – 2002
    Colorado – 2002
    Washington – 2002
    Idaho – 2003
    Washington DC – May 12, 2004
    Hawaii – April 29, 2005 (?)
    Connecticut – October 2005
    New Hampshire – May 20, 2006
    Montana
    Nevada – November 2008

    The following Grand Lodges definitely have blanket recognition of Prince Hall Grand Lodges, as shown by the language in resolutions adopted by these Grand Lodges.
    Arizona
    Arizona 2001 Proceedings, Resolution 2001-06, page 62, with adoption on page 193:

    “Resolved: That it shall be the policy of this Grand Lodge to recognize and to offer to enter into fraternal relations with any and all Prince Hall Grand Lodges which: (1) are recognized by the M.W. Prince Hall Grand Lodge of Arizona & Jurisdiction Inc; and (2) have concluded an agreement, treaty or compact of mutual recognition with the Grand Lodge(s) who are members of the Conference of Grand Masters of North America with whom they share territorial jurisdiction.”
    Connecticut The Grand Lodge of Connecticut, October 2005, adopted a resolution similar to the one shown below, the DC GL resolution on blanket recognition of Prince Hall Grand Lodges.
    District of Columbia (Washington DC) The Grand Lodge of Washington DC unanimously adopted the resolution shown below, including its explanation, giving recognition to all Prince Hall Grand Lodges that were already recognized, or that will in the future be recognized, by the “mainstream” Grand Lodge in their jurisdiction. This occurred on May 12, 2004.
    Hawaii A Past Grand Master of Hawaii reported that the Grand Lodge of Hawaii gave recognition to all Prince Hall Grand Lodges which have already been recognized by Grand Lodges with which the GL of Hawaii is in comity. This occurred on April 29, 2005. However, I have been informed by a very high authority in this Grand Lodge that this information was not accurate.
    Kansas The Grand Master of Kansas specifically confirmed that Kansas has blanket recognition of all Prince Hall Grand Lodges that are recognized by their “mainstream” counterparts.
    New Hampshire From an email from a reliable source: At its annual communication on 20 May 2006, the Grand Lodge of New Hampshire voted to automatically offer to grant recognition to any Prince Hall Grand Lodge that has been, or will be, recognized by a recognized Grand Lodge sharing the same geographical area.
    New Jersey “The Committee on Fraternal Relations recommends that the most ancient and honorable society of Free and Accepted Masons for the State of New Jersey grant fraternal recognition to the Most Worshipful Prince Hall Grand Lodges in all states within the United States that are recognized by the Most Worshipful Prince Hall Grand Lodge, Free and Accepted Masons of the State of New Jersey and have also been granted recognition by the Most Worshipful or Right Worshipful Grand Lodge of Free and Accepted Masons in that jurisdiction that is recognized by the Grand Lodge of New Jersey.”

    This motion was adopted in by the Grand Lodge of New Jersey in April 2004.
    New York GL of NY earlier this month (May 2008) ratified “blanket” recognition to PHA GLs
    in those mainstream GLs that recognize their PHA counterpart.
    Nevada From an email from a reliable source: In November 2008 the Grand Lodge of Nevada extended blanket mutual recognition to all Prince Hall Grand Lodges which have mutual recognition with the “mainstream” Grand Lodges in their jurisdiction. Here is draft language, which may be the same as the final language: “The [Legitimacy of Grand Lodge] Committee recommends that this Grand Lodge grant recognition for visitation purposes to those Prince Hall Grand Lodges which are recognized by the Most Worshipful Prince Hall Grand Lodge Free and Accepted Masons Jurisdiction of Nevada, Inc., and which have entered into mutual recognition with Masonic Grand Lodge(s) with whom they share jurisdiction.”

  18. I would like to put into the record the words of Chris Hodapp whom I greatly respect. I will not tell you who he is talking about besides me.

    Chris Hodapp said…

    You may see Prince Hall recognition as a train wreck. 80% of US Freemasonry does not. UGLE does not. Only GLs in former slave states try to claim there is a problem—not with racism, heaven forfend, but with jurisdictional sovereignty. That’s all. Really it is.

    I’m not buying it, my brother. I’ve read your blog and your back-and-forth with Fred Milliken. You can drag out all of the claims about how far back territorial exclusivity can be traced. It doesn’t wash. Blacks have been denied membership in Freemasonry in different states throughout the US since its beginning. It was wrong then, it’s wrong now. But we clearly live in very different times. Grand Lodges have dealt with sharing jurisdictions through mutual treaties since colonial days. The grand lodges of England, Scotland and Ireland have been doing it for literally centuries. It wasn’t just invented to solve the Prince Hall “problem.”

    As for some argument that what REALLY needs to happen is a merger between the two GLs, you and I both know that’s a delaying tactic designed to sound reasonable, when neither side wants such a thing. No, I’m no fan of “separate but equal,” but since Prince Hall Freemasonry has a 230 year tradition, no rational Mason would suggest they give up their heritage.

    I have a real low boiling point over racism in Freemasonry. I had to deal with it as a Master of a lodge. Eight years later, a pair of bigots lurking within my lodge showed up at a funeral service and dragged it up all over again. I’ve had a Georgia cop jab me in the chest and tell me in no uncertain terms blacks cannot be Masons. I’ve had masons swear up and down that “freeborn” was from an old Roman term meaning “never descended from slavery,” even though it was proved to them no such definition ever existed outside of old Masonic monitors. So I don’t really go in much for contentions that PHA recognition is a “train wreck.” It’s not a “train wreck” in the states where it has occurred. It won’t be a “train wreck” in any new states that it occurs in, unless individual Masons with a pigmentation-based chip on their shoulders make it so.

    What IS a train wreck is the stain of bigotry that hangs over Freemasonry in the Confederate states, and in a rotten few individuals like the two in my lodge. It’s 2008, gentlemen. The Civil War ended 143 years ago. The Civil Rights Act was passed 44 years ago. No one wants to force all-white or all-black Masonic lodges to integrate or engage in court-ordered sweetheart dances with each other. Engaging in institutionalized racism is frankly disgusting, especially when it is within a fraternity that is supposed to be about universal brotherhood.

    Freemasonry is not an extension of the Klan, and this is not the Augusta Country Club. The map of GLs that don’t recognize PHA GLs is shrinking every year. Some wear it like a badge of honor. the rest of us are disgusted that it even exists.
    September 20, 2008 2:48 AM

  19. I really would wish that you would stop using that phrase. There is still one state that does not recognize any Prince Hall counterpart that did not join the Confederacy. Also, racism is only half of the problem. Other factors include:

    – Resentment stemming from racism
    – Indifference
    – Deciding which Prince Hall Grand Lodges to recognize (the U.S. has more bogus grand lodges than the rest of the world combined)
    – Apathy
    – The prospect of a mass exodus on BOTH SIDES should recognition be forced before both sides are ready

    The phrase “Confederate Masonry” really is an oversimplification of the problem at hand. Although racism is the largest root cause, that description falsely implies the following:

    – Prince Hall Grand Lodges not yet recognized by a main stream counterpart are sitting around eagerly waiting for a phone call from us.
    – All Grand Lodges that insert the name “Prince Hall” in their name are legitimate.
    – Forcing the issue in Grand Lodges “to make a stand” does no damage that we should be concerned with to the Grand Lodges on either side.

    I would propose that the reason this issue hasn’t been solved over night is precisely because this is a problem that is more complex then the phrase “Confederate Masonry” would imply.

    And I really don’t say this with the intent to sound mean or condescending and I hope it is not received that way.

    **********************************************************************
    This has breakthrough ramifications for those Confederate states that still refuse to recognize Prince Hall

  20. I understand what brother Hodapp is saying but I also think this is oversimplifying the problem. The Grand Lodge sessions I have attended in the last two years I have heard many of them say that they do recognize the concept of Exclusive Territorial Jurisdiction except by mutual treat or agreement. I don’t sense that ETJ is the whole basis of why this process has been so slow in the south (especially for the reasons I just outlined above). It’s easy to draw up a quick fix and label groups of masons who don’t agree with you. It’s not so easy to actually interview members on both sides of the fence in the states you both refer to. I doubt either you or him have done this. And I could be wrong. But I am here, in one of these states now and I tell you both that this problem is more complex than you both are making it out to be for the very reasons I outlined above.

  21. ************************************************************
    Brother Jason,

    You are right. Some Prince Hall Masons are resentful and others don’t care. It is more in some states and less in others. But your personal experience does not make a competent study. I am talking about the historical context and within that context Black Masonry has recognized Traditional White Masonry as a valid form of Masonry.

    After over 200 years of banishment the desire to be together, to be interconnected has definitely waned. Yet there is one big reason that PHA Grand Lodges work for recognition. If they receive that recognition from their Mainstream counterpart they can apply for and with assurance receive official recognition from the UGLE.
    ***************************************************************************

    I am aware of the reasons they would want to have mutual recognition including the benefit of having recognition from the UGLE. When you said, “Recognition is a matter of fact and needs no separate process at this time” I did not realize you were speaking in a broad historical context. As I stated earlier, the fact that many prince hall grand lodges have adopted mutual recognition does not mean that there is a de facto recognition in place. Specifically, their members are not allowed to converse with us on the secrets of Freemasonry. Nor are we allowed to converse with them. When a treaty or mutual agreement is in place, this will change. As far as I’m concerned, the sooner the better.

    ************************************************************
    Your argument starts to deteriorate into baseless charges used by those who would thwart recognition for unsavory reasons. I don’t know your state but in the ones I am familiar with all the clandestine Black Masonry is not called Prince Hall. They all do not have Prince Hall in their name. Prince Hall as applied to Masonry is not a synonym for Negro, Black or African-American. And to say that you don’t know how to distinguish the real from the bogus seems implausible to me coming from such a bright guy as you who knows so many things.
    ***********************************************************

    As I said earlier, I am under the jurisdiction of the Grand Lodge of Alabama, F&AM. What you describe as “my argument” is not actually my argument. It is the result of conversations with my Prince Hall friend of abstract, non-secret things about our two respective grand lodges. The points I made are not all of my own. They are his as well. And having worked with a very large amount of Prince Hall masons I can tell you that they are of the same opinion.

    I did not say that I do not know how to distinguish between real and fake. And although I do have a prince hall GL in Alabama I would like to see us recognize the decision is not for me alone to make. Additionally, to further reinforce my point that not all Grand Lodges that have Prince Hall in their name are legitimate I would direct you here: http://www.thephylaxis.org/bogus/vol7.php

    ******************************************************************

    Legitimate Black Freemasonry are those that were chartered by a Lodge or Grand Lodge which traces its lineage back to African Lodge #459 which has a charter from England. All of these now refer to themselves as PHA – Prince Hall Affiliated. To verify and research any of this all one has to do is to go to the Phylaxis Society and therein read the reports of the Commission on Bogus Masonry.
    *********************************************************************

    I am aware of how legitimate black freemasonry can trace its lineage. All the ones that you refer to that can trace their lineage to African Lodge #459 probably do call themselves Prince Hall. But so do many other bogus grand lodges. See link above. And no, they did not receive their charter from England. They received it from Ireland.

    **********************************************************************
    The information in this webpage was prepared by Paul M. Bessel, Executive Secretary of the Masonic Leadership Center. Please contact me with any additional information, or any comments or suggestions. My email address is paulb’at’bessel.org

    It is reported that the following Grand Lodges have “blanket” recognition of all Prince Hall Grand Lodges that are recognized by their corresponding “mainstream” Grand Lodge (with dates when this was reportedly done). I have not been able to check to verify this, except where noted below.
    **********************************************************************

    I am aware of, have read and am a fan of Bessel’s site. This blanket recognition he is talking about refers to mainstream grand lodges recognizing prince hall grand lodges [that are recognized by their corresponding mainstream grand lodge]. This does not mean that Prince Hall Masonry (legitimate or otherwise) has a blanket recognition towards mainstream grand lodges. It means that the mainstream grand lodges in his list will recognize any given prince hall grand lodge that has recognition from its corresponding mainstream grand lodge. These are two different things.

  22. Also, in rereading our discussion your first post to me said, “There are a couple of Mainstream Grand Lodges that have declared that they recognize all Prince Hall Lodges in the nation. They did so unilaterally.”

    Again, just to clarify: Those Mainstream Grand Lodges have not declared that they recognize all Prince Hall lodges in the nation. They declared (in essence, the same thing the UGLE is doing) that they are recognizing any Prince Hall Grand Lodge that has mutual recognition with its mainstream counterpart. As stated above, this should not be interpreted as “Prince Hall has a blanket recognition towards all mainstream grand lodges”. As we agreed, they are separate entities each with a decision to make and as I pointed out not all Grand Lodges that have the name Prince Hall in it are legitimate.

  23. And no, they did not receive their charter from England. They received it from Ireland.
    **************************************************************************

    Correction: They were initiated under GL Ireland. They did receive a charter from UGLE.

  24. Jason I agree with most of your points except your insistence of throwing Black clandestine Masonry into the conversation.

    You said “Alabama currently has six different “Grand Lodges” that call themselves Prince Hall. Most are located in the Montgomery and Birmingham areas. I would guess this is true in other states as well. So, which one would you have us recognize? All of them?”

    Clandestine masonry has nothing to do with this discussion. Actually if all of “mainstream” and regular PHGLs had mutual recognition it would help fight the battle against clandestine Masonry. One of clandestine Masons favorite comebacks when they are told about their clandestine origin “Well, who cares the Grand Lodge of Alabama or Georgia calls Prince Hall ‘Clandestine’ so you are no better than us”

    There are 40 plus “mainstream” grand lodges with mutual recognition with their state PHGL that have no problem knowing who the real PHGLs are. So we don’t even need to bring the African-American in this conversation. Just like you all have

    “Conference of Grand Masters Of Masons In North America, Inc.”
    http://www.cgmna.org/

    Prince Hall has

    “The Conference of Grand Masters Prince Hall Masons, Inc.”
    http://www.conferenceofgrandmasterspha.org/

    Click on the “Grand Masters” link and one can easily see who are the real and regular Prince Hall Grand Lodges. If the website isn’t clear enough then you have other options. Now that the Sovereign Grand Commanders of all four U.S. supreme councils have a good working relationship, a “mainstream” grand master that considering recognition can contact their S.G.C. to contact their P.H. S.G.C. counterpart, either Ill. Deary Vaughn or Ill. Solomon Wallace. They can confirm who are the real PHGLs in their orients. It’s too easy.

    I have seen other “mainstream” Freemasons in the south on various blogs use the “We don’t know who is the real Prince Hall Grand Lodge in our state” as an excuse for non-recognition. It is real insulting to Prince Hall masons who feel we get lumped with clandestine Masons whose only comparison is the color of our skin.

    Your other points are valid but this one irritates me and other Prince Hall Masons as well.

  25. Also Jason you said “Alabama currently has six different “Grand Lodges” that call themselves Prince Hall. ”

    I have never heard of any other grand lodge in Alabama calling themselves the Prince Hall Grand Lodge of Alabama. The closest thing might be the “Olive Branch Grand Lodge of Alabama (Prince Hall Origin – National Compact)

    I research clandestine grand lodges, if you don’t mind can you share the names and locations of these so-called Grand Lodges in Alabama that call themselves “Prince Hall”? Thanks. You can post here if Bro. Milliken doesn’t mind or email me at “deals AT acbuyshouses DOT com”

    Thanks

  26. I don’t see any Prince Hall Names here. You will find that most clandestine GLs do not have a Masonic charter, they have a “charter” from their secretary of state – a corporate charter.

    Home
    Bogus Grand Lodges
    in Alabama
    as of 25 Jan 2006

    Legal Name: Bessemer Independent Masons & Order of Eastern Stars of the USA, Inc.
    Place Of Inc: Jefferson County
    Date Of Inc.: 07-28-2000
    Reg Agent…: PIPPEN, NATHANIEL
    2119-A 5TH AVE
    BESSEMER, AL 35020

    Legal Name: Supreme Grand Lodge, Modern Free and Accepted Masons of the World
    Place Of Inc: Jefferson County
    Date Of Inc.: 12-03-1921
    Reg Agent…: * Not On Data Base
    Prin Address: BIRMINGHAM, AL
    Names Of Inc: BALDWIN, J B
    NICHOLS, C J
    TAYLOR, J W

    Legal Name: King Solomon Free and Accepted Grand Ancient Masons of the World Incorporated, Scotties Rite Affiliated No. 1
    Place Of Inc: Mobile County
    Date Of Inc.: 03-29-1966
    Reg Agent…: * Not On Data Base
    Prin Address: PRICHARD, AL
    Nat Of Bus..: CHARITABLE INSTITUTION
    Names Of Inc: SMITH, REV WILLIAM
    STALLWORTH, EMERY
    HARPER, ROOSEVELT
    BURT, J D
    EVERETT, GREEN

    Legal Name: Most Worshipful Olive Branch Free & Accepted Ancient York Masons Compact
    Place Of Inc: Lee County
    Date Of Inc.: 11-08-1900
    Reg Agent…: * Not On Data Base
    Prin Address: OPELIKA, AL
    Nat Of Bus..: BENEVOLENCE & CHARITY
    Names Of Inc: SAVAGE, J R
    CHISOLM, J J
    WASHINGTON, A
    FLAKE, JOHN

    Legal Name: Supreme Grand Lodge of Free & Accepted Colored Masons of America
    Place Of Inc: Jefferson County
    Date Of Inc.: 10-18-1926
    Reg Agent…: * Not On Data Base
    Prin Address: BIRMINGHAM, AL
    Nat Of Bus..: FRATERNAL
    Names Of Inc: SPEIGHT, W W
    LUCAS, W L
    LOVE, JAS

    Legal Name: Tanner Colored Masons, Of Tanner, Ala.
    Place Of Inc: Limestone County
    Date Of Inc.: 08-06-1964
    Reg Agent…: * Not On Data Base
    Prin Address: TANNER, AL
    Nat Of Bus..: —
    Names Of Inc: YARBROUGH, ROBERT
    CRUTCHER, WALTER
    MALONE, WILLIE

    Legal Name: Traveling Masons of the World, Inc.
    State Of Inc: Georgia
    Qualified…: 06-29-1979
    Date Of Inc.: * Not On Data Base
    Reg Agent…: COLEMAN, THOMAS
    806 4TH STREET
    PHENIX CITY, AL
    Prin Address: 2518 8TH STREET
    COLUMBUS, GA 31906
    Nat Of Bus..: —

    Legal Name: Union Free & Accepted Colored Masons
    Place Of Inc: Lee County
    Date Of Inc.: 10-16-1931
    Reg Agent…: * Not On Data Base
    Prin Address: AUBURN, AL
    Nat Of Bus..: BENEVOLENT
    Names Of Inc: ADAMS, J O
    BYRD, ROBERT
    ADAMS, OTIS

    Legal Name: Most Worshipful John A. Bell Grand Lodge Ancient Free & Accepted Masons of Alabama
    Place Of Inc: Fayette County
    Date Of Inc.: 05-02-1984
    Reg Agent…: * Not On Data Base
    Prin Address: —, AL
    Nat Of Bus..: —
    Names Of Inc: * Not On Data Base

    Legal Name: Most Worshipful National Grand Lodge of Free and Accepted Ancient Scottish Masons (Colored) of the United States of America
    State Of Inc: Maryland
    Qualified…: 03-04-1944
    Date Of Inc.: * Not On Data Base
    Reg Agent…: PATTON, P L
    218 CHURCH STREET < HUNTSVILLE, AL Prin Address: 8839 OAKLAND AVE DETROIT, MI Nat Of Bus:

  27. Jason I agree with most of your points except your insistence of throwing Black clandestine Masonry into the conversation.

    You said “Alabama currently has six different “Grand Lodges” that call themselves Prince Hall. Most are located in the Montgomery and Birmingham areas. I would guess this is true in other states as well. So, which one would you have us recognize? All of them?”

    Clandestine masonry has nothing to do with this discussion. Actually if all of “mainstream” and regular PHGLs had mutual recognition it would help fight the battle against clandestine Masonry. One of clandestine Masons favorite comebacks when they are told about their clandestine origin “Well, who cares the Grand Lodge of Alabama or Georgia calls Prince Hall ‘Clandestine’ so you are no better than us”

    There are 40 plus “mainstream” grand lodges with mutual recognition with their state PHGL that have no problem knowing who the real PHGLs are. So we don’t even need to bring the African-American in this conversation. Just like you all have

    “Conference of Grand Masters Of Masons In North America, Inc.”
    http://www.cgmna.org/

    Prince Hall has

    “The Conference of Grand Masters Prince Hall Masons, Inc.”
    http://www.conferenceofgrandmasterspha.org/

    Click on the “Grand Masters” link and one can easily see who are the real and regular Prince Hall Grand Lodges. If the website isn’t clear enough then you have other options. Now that the Sovereign Grand Commanders of all four U.S. supreme councils have a good working relationship, a “mainstream” grand master that considering recognition can contact their S.G.C. to contact their P.H. S.G.C. counterpart, either Ill. Deary Vaughn or Ill. Solomon Wallace. They can confirm who are the real PHGLs in their orients. It’s too easy.

    I have seen other “mainstream” Freemasons in the south on various blogs use the “We don’t know who is the real Prince Hall Grand Lodge in our state” as an excuse for non-recognition. It is real insulting to Prince Hall masons who feel we get lumped with clandestine Masons whose only comparison is the color of our skin.

    Your other points are valid but this one irritates me and other Prince Hall Masons as well.
    **********************************************************************

    I’m sorry this point irritated you. I assumed (incorrectly), that folks would not jump to the conclusion that I had no idea how to trace legitimate prince hall origins. To clarify that post and other posts of mine, the point I was trying to make was that just because a grand lodge has “prince hall” (or prince-hall oriented, related, or anything else) does not necessarily mean it is legitimate (by most of the world’s standards at lest). I was also trying to say (and not only in the context of the state of Alabama) that this an issue that each grand lodge’s jurisprudence committee (the ones that have not already recognized a PHA GL) will have to investigate. Personally, I tend to agree with you. It’s not rocket science. But the work has to be done and a recommendation has to be made by the GL to the constituent lodges. And this is only one of many things that slow the process. I have listed some of the others.

    Do not incorrectly assume I am lumping PHA masons and clandestine masons all in the same category. To do so means that you have completely missed my point in my several other posts. Additionally, before taking something out of context it would be breathtakingly refreshing if you have just asked me to clarify.

    Driving to my larger point: Racism by folks in mainstream grand lodge jurisdictions is a big (if not the biggest) reason there are still some Grand Lodges that don’t recognize a PHA counterpart. But to chalk it up to “Confederate Masonry” is a misrepresentation of the problem one at hand. Add to this a post that overgeneralizes (and incorrectly overgeneralizes PHA lodges) and you begin to see the reason I posted in the first place.

  28. I don’t see any Prince Hall Names here. You will find that most clandestine GLs do not have a Masonic charter, they have a “charter” from their secretary of state – a corporate charter.

    Home
    Bogus Grand Lodges
    in Alabama
    as of 25 Jan 2006

    Legal Name: Bessemer Independent Masons & Order of Eastern Stars of the USA, Inc.
    Place Of Inc: Jefferson County
    Date Of Inc.: 07-28-2000
    Reg Agent…: PIPPEN, NATHANIEL
    2119-A 5TH AVE
    BESSEMER, AL 35020

    Legal Name: Supreme Grand Lodge, Modern Free and Accepted Masons of the World
    Place Of Inc: Jefferson County
    Date Of Inc.: 12-03-1921
    Reg Agent…: * Not On Data Base
    Prin Address: BIRMINGHAM, AL
    Names Of Inc: BALDWIN, J B
    NICHOLS, C J
    TAYLOR, J W

    Legal Name: King Solomon Free and Accepted Grand Ancient Masons of the World Incorporated, Scotties Rite Affiliated No. 1
    Place Of Inc: Mobile County
    Date Of Inc.: 03-29-1966
    Reg Agent…: * Not On Data Base
    Prin Address: PRICHARD, AL
    Nat Of Bus..: CHARITABLE INSTITUTION
    Names Of Inc: SMITH, REV WILLIAM
    STALLWORTH, EMERY
    HARPER, ROOSEVELT
    BURT, J D
    EVERETT, GREEN

    Legal Name: Most Worshipful Olive Branch Free & Accepted Ancient York Masons Compact
    Place Of Inc: Lee County
    Date Of Inc.: 11-08-1900
    Reg Agent…: * Not On Data Base
    Prin Address: OPELIKA, AL
    Nat Of Bus..: BENEVOLENCE & CHARITY
    Names Of Inc: SAVAGE, J R
    CHISOLM, J J
    WASHINGTON, A
    FLAKE, JOHN

    Legal Name: Supreme Grand Lodge of Free & Accepted Colored Masons of America
    Place Of Inc: Jefferson County
    Date Of Inc.: 10-18-1926
    Reg Agent…: * Not On Data Base
    Prin Address: BIRMINGHAM, AL
    Nat Of Bus..: FRATERNAL
    Names Of Inc: SPEIGHT, W W
    LUCAS, W L
    LOVE, JAS

    Legal Name: Tanner Colored Masons, Of Tanner, Ala.
    Place Of Inc: Limestone County
    Date Of Inc.: 08-06-1964
    Reg Agent…: * Not On Data Base
    Prin Address: TANNER, AL
    Nat Of Bus..: —
    Names Of Inc: YARBROUGH, ROBERT
    CRUTCHER, WALTER
    MALONE, WILLIE

    Legal Name: Traveling Masons of the World, Inc.
    State Of Inc: Georgia
    Qualified…: 06-29-1979
    Date Of Inc.: * Not On Data Base
    Reg Agent…: COLEMAN, THOMAS
    806 4TH STREET
    PHENIX CITY, AL
    Prin Address: 2518 8TH STREET
    COLUMBUS, GA 31906
    Nat Of Bus..: —

    Legal Name: Union Free & Accepted Colored Masons
    Place Of Inc: Lee County
    Date Of Inc.: 10-16-1931
    Reg Agent…: * Not On Data Base
    Prin Address: AUBURN, AL
    Nat Of Bus..: BENEVOLENT
    Names Of Inc: ADAMS, J O
    BYRD, ROBERT
    ADAMS, OTIS

    Legal Name: Most Worshipful John A. Bell Grand Lodge Ancient Free & Accepted Masons of Alabama
    Place Of Inc: Fayette County
    Date Of Inc.: 05-02-1984
    Reg Agent…: * Not On Data Base
    Prin Address: —, AL
    Nat Of Bus..: —
    Names Of Inc: * Not On Data Base

    Legal Name: Most Worshipful National Grand Lodge of Free and Accepted Ancient Scottish Masons (Colored) of the United States of America
    State Of Inc: Maryland
    Qualified…: 03-04-1944
    Date Of Inc.: * Not On Data Base
    Reg Agent…: PATTON, P L
    218 CHURCH STREET <
    HUNTSVILLE, AL
    Prin Address: 8839 OAKLAND AVE
    DETROIT, MI
    Nat Of Bus:
    ************************************************************************

    Yes, brother. You do not see any names there. This is because this is not the link I gave you. You have either not clicked or chose to ignore the link I directed you to in an earlier post. Additionally, as wonderful as the Phylaxis site is (I am a fan of it), it is not an all encompassing list.

  29. Oh come now Jason. I looked at your link when you gave it to me which is a Phylaxis link. This has nothing to do with Alabama, the sate you come from and from which you have all these comments or feed back from your friends.

    Once again you bring up another objection to Prince Hall Freemasonry. You are like running the gamut here. What will be next?

    You have two Bogus Grand Lodges, one in Mississippi and one in Florida, who took the name Prince Hall before all Prince Hall Lodges adopted the name. Prince Hall as a name for all those Grand Lodges that trace their lineage back to African Lodge #459 was not decided upon en masse until about the middle of the 19th century.

    It really easy to tell a bogus Grand Lodge like these for they often have the word “York” or “Scottish Rite” in their title. Or they are AF & AM. PHA is F & AM.

    These two aberrations are well known and do not confuse most Masons.

    Is this going to be a constant – “I think I can find a way to trip up Prince Hall Freemasonry” – comment section?

  30. Also Jason you said “Alabama currently has six different “Grand Lodges” that call themselves Prince Hall. ”

    I have never heard of any other grand lodge in Alabama calling themselves the Prince Hall Grand Lodge of Alabama. The closest thing might be the “Olive Branch Grand Lodge of Alabama (Prince Hall Origin – National Compact)

    I research clandestine grand lodges, if you don’t mind can you share the names and locations of these so-called Grand Lodges in Alabama that call themselves “Prince Hall”? Thanks. You can post here if Bro. Milliken doesn’t mind or email me at “deals AT acbuyshouses DOT com”

    Thanks
    **********************************************************************

    Yeah, no prob. There’s a few that operate at a national level and claim jurisdiction in Alabama and then there are a few that are based in Alabama.

    Bessel lists the following:

    M.W. King Solomon Grand Lodge AF&AM
    M.W. St. James Grand Lodge of Alabama, Inc.
    International Masons
    Progressive Free and Accepted Masons of the USA
    M.W. Mt. Olive Grand Lodge, Prince Hall Origin
    under the National Compact
    Brotherly Love Grand Lodge (International F&AM)
    M.W. National Grand Lodge of F&AAYM of U.S.A., Prince Hall Origin & Parent Body of All Legitimate
    Masons, York Scottish
    Lincoln Grand Lodge, Free and Accepted Colored Masons of America
    Supreme Workshop of Modern Free and Accepted Colored Masons of America
    Grand Lodge AF&AM, Scottish Rite
    The Most Worshipful King Solomon Grand Lodge, A.F.&A.M., Scottish Rite of the State of Alabama,
    Inc

    Source: http://bessel.org/glsusa.htm

    Masonic info lists the following:

    1. Most Worshipful National Grand Lodge of F&AAYM of U.S.A., Prince Hall Origin & Parent Body of All Legitimate Masons, York Scottish (AL)

    2. Lincoln Grand Lodge, Free and Accepted Colored Masons of America (AL)

    3. Supreme Workshop of Modern Free and Accepted Colored Masons of America (AL)

    4. King Solomon Grand Lodge, AF&AM (AL) (AR) (DC)

    5. Grand Lodge AF&AM, Scottish Rite (AL)

    6. The Most Worshipful King Solomon Grand Lodge, A.F.&A.M., Scottish Rite of the State of Alabama, Inc (AL)

    Source: http://www.masonicinfo.com/morephonies.htm

    The Most Worshipful National Grand Lodge of F&AAYM of U.S.A. has several lodges in Alabama. Source: http://www.mwnationalgrandlodge.org/SubordinateLodges-AL.htm

    At this link ( http://thephylaxis.org/bogus/bogus_nc.php ) you’ll find one that was actually incorporated in Alabama. Two listings below that (the one on the bottom called “UNITED NATIONAL SUPREME COUNCIL, ANCIENT AND ACCEPTED SCOTTISH RITE, FREEMASONS OF THE WORLD, 33rd” actually has several lodges and at least one OES chapter in Alabama (I actually worked with a lady who was a member of this OES chapter).

    SUPREME GRAND LODGE, MODERN FREE AND ACCEPTED MASONS OF THE WORLD AND ANCIENT ACCEPTED SCOTTISH RITE FREE MASONS were incorporated in AL although I do not know if they are active here. Source: http://thephylaxis.org/bogus/bogus_ms.php

    … As I write this I just realized I didn’t answer your question. I think you were looking for specific ones with “Prince Hall” in the name.

    1) Most Worshipful National Grand Lodge of F&AAYM of U.S.A., Prince Hall Origin & Parent Body of All Legitimate Masons, York Scottish

    2) The one you mentioned, “Olive Branch”

    3) The Prince Hall GL my friend belongs to: http://www.phaglal.org/

    There are others, but I’m gonna have to do some digging. I will post them here.

  31. Oh come now Jason. I looked at your link when you gave it to me which is a Phylaxis link. This has nothing to do with Alabama, the sate you come from and from which you have all these comments or feed back from your friends.
    ***************************************************************************

    I did not say that was a link to Bogus Alabama lodges. In fact, my exact words were, “Additionally, to further reinforce my point that not all Grand Lodges that have Prince Hall in their name are legitimate I would direct you here: http://www.thephylaxis.org/bogus/vol7.php

    ******************************************************************************
    Once again you bring up another objection to Prince Hall Freemasonry. You are like running the gamut here. What will be next?
    ******************************************************************************

    “Mutual recognition is almost inevitable in time in all 50 states”

    “There’s some bitter feelings on both sides of the fence and they will pass with time (with any luck, before I die)”

    “…and If I recall correctly the UGLE said something to the effect of “The formation of the Prince Hall Grand Lodge was eccentric but not irregular for the day.” I agree.”

    “I firmly believe mutual recognition will happen eventually in all states. It’s just a matter of time.”

    “I don’t sense that ETJ is the whole basis of why this process has been so slow in the south”

    ” When a treaty or mutual agreement is in place, this will change. As far as I’m concerned, the sooner the better.”

    “I am aware of, have read and am a fan of Bessel’s site.”

    I’m sorry if the above statements led you to believe I have objections towards Prince Hall Masonry. I don’t. I have objections to your assessment of the current relationship (or lack thereof) between Prince Hall Grand Lodges and “Mainstream” Grand Lodges. One of your posts match an identical statement you made back in 2009 which was as follows:

    “Let me make one thing clear that is often overlooked. Prince Hall Grand Lodges have never declared any Mainstream Masonic Grand Lodge irregular or clandestine. They have always recognized every Mainstream Grand Lodge.

    The declaration of irregularity and clandestine has been made from Mainstream Masonic Grand Lodges against Prince Hall.

    Therefore it is up to any and every Mainstream GL to just remove its non recognition if they choose to do so. Prince Hall doesn’t need to do anything nor ask for anything because it is not the ones who have made the separation.

    This is not a case of mutual recognition. It is a case of one side imposing restrictions and one side that needs to remove them. Prince Hall is not going to ask for Mainstream to do its duty. It’s up to them to just go ahead and do it.

    “The protocols associated with recognition of one Grand Lodge by another require that the Grand Lodge wishing recognition ask for it.”

    But when the body that you are asking for recognition is the same one that declared you an outlaw and has discredited you from the beginning, then the protocols become somewhat muddled. Especially if you have always recognized that body and have never declared about them what they have about you.

    It would seem that in this particular case, when the outlawing body sees the light and the error of its ways that it simply reverse its decision unilatterally and all would be as desired.

    Those that say that a society, group or body that has been insulted, spat upon, slandered and humiliated should come meekly hat in hand to beg for a ruling of good standing are not dealing with the real world.

    If you see the error of your ways then freely correct them. If you don’t then do not expect to be asked to do what is right.

    In today’s world you are not going to see the Black man on his knees begging for recognition. Never again.

    In a society that espouses the fatherhood of God and the brotherhood of man it is time for those who do not live up to its ideals to do what is right without being asked.”

    Source: http://www.tsmr.org/ph.html

    Here again you made the case that Prince Hall Grand Lodges have some kind of de facto recognition. This is demonstrably false. THIS is part of the reason why I posted (the other part was your mention of “Confederate Masonry” which I outlined objections to earlier). THOSE are my objections. I do NOT object to Prince Hall Lodges (the legitimate ones) and for the record I HOPE that one day the GL of AL and the PHA GL of AL finally decide to start getting along.

    *************************************************************************

    Is this going to be a constant – “I think I can find a way to trip up Prince Hall Freemasonry” – comment section?

    *************************************************************************

    You have got to be freakin’ kidding me.

  32. my experiance of masonry—20 years of lodge meetings—-not much got done by argument—no matter what was brought up—nobody wanted to try it—something was just a little not what they wanted or it was just not worded right—ect ect—-

  33. AS a member of the United Supreme Council Southern Jurisdiction PHA, I had the pleasure, no the honor of meeting Commander Steele and his lovely wife at my Supreme Council where I received my 33rd a few years back. I found him to be a just and upright man who said he was going to do this and I believed him then as I do now.
    There was a poem that I read years ago as a young newly raised Master Mason. Its called “Last Night I knelt where Hiram Knelt”… Google it my brothers’ and remember why we became masons in the first place!

  34. As a Prince Hall Mason from Alabama, there has never been a comment coming from PGM SJ Bennet nor GM Emeritus Dr. William O. Jones stating he will never grip a “White Man.” These are unfettered lies of fancy passed by people carrying information of I heard.

    The PHGLs of the South recognise the realities of racial tension from both GLs. On our end the membership were directly impacted by the Jim Crow South. Additionally, our membership wants to travel to other lodges, that caveat being (IMHO) to lodges outside of the South, in most instances. I find it funny that younger Masons here in Alabama look forward to talking to our GL counterparts. We want it, yet, the old guard doesn’t.

    All too often the technicalities get swept under the rug. There has to be a point in time when the Northern GLs hold the Southern GLs accountable. The Southern will drop a non-recognition edict on a Northern GL if they recognise a PHGL counterpart that doesn’t have recognition with their Southern counterpart. Yet, the Northern won’t take a stand against the Southern by recognising the PHGL and non-recognising the State GL.

    The greater community Masonically coming together is more important than a bigoted few. Those GLs that place the caveats in their recognition agreements are just as bad as the Southern. I say this because they turn a blind-eye similar to the Jim Crow tactics.

  35. In working for the betterment of humanity, I have learned that the greatest enemy to life next sinfulness is ignorance. Do that which thou ought to do, let the results be what it will… May every Moral and Social Virtue cement us!

  36. Greetings Brethren,

    I’m a member of Lake Commorant Lode No.397 P.H.A. in Mississippi. I’m reading these posts, and I only have one question; Will I encounter any problems or be turned away from a non P.H.A. Lodge, even if I’m thoroughly examined and present my dues card?

  37. Although these posts are two years in the making, it illustrates that Masonic mutual recognition, like a glacier that slowly melts and often moved as slowly – commonly adds more mass unto itself – season to season.
    I live in Hawaii and have seen the transformation in our Masonry progress to full recognition between Grand Lodges. There are many metaphors that can be used to describe the journey… “Many ‘jump-starts’ without the adequate runtime time to charge the batteries”, “Open invitations to meetings you are not expected to attend” and “We can act Masonic-ally, but don’t expect our spouses to…”
    I’ve been trying to invite the Prince Hall Scottish Rite Bodies to our KCCH, IGH and reunions for days. No good emails, no good phone numbers, no response to Facebook messages. But I’m trying…

  38. Race was the problem… funny thing is King Solomon was black, masonry came from the East Timbuktu, Africa… so tell me who is really clandestine…?? I’ve tried to figure out how could one who takes what another has tell them they can’t have it, but got it from who they tried to keep it away from?? Smh God will show justice and one Day it will be as it is supposed to be, under one canopy, no separation…

  39. To the best of my knowledge (if I’m wrong, someone please correct me), neither the Grand Lodge of Tennessee nor the PH Grand Lodge recognize each other nor has either of the above mentioned Grand Lodges sought recognition of the other.

  40. We all made a promise to GOD remember that im from District 5 Alabama PHA I speak with all brothers GOD See’s no color

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